Comment: The Stephen Hawking Delusion

Let me get something clear from the beginning, I haven’t read Professor Stephen Hawking’s new book The Grand Design, as it will be available to purchase in 6 days. Therefore, this comment is based on the specific excerpts taken from his book concerning the existence of God and cosmology that appeared in the media.

In the Professor’s new book, an extract of which appeared in the Times newspaper, it states that Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing…spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. The Professor continues It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.

From these excerpts alone it seems to me that the Professor is claiming that things can pop into being and that the universe spontaneously emerged from nothing. The Professor makes these conclusions as he seems to be holding an indeterministic view of physics. This means that he believes that there are many sub-atomic events that do not correspond with causality, because some physicists claim that sub-atomic particles behave unpredictably and spontaneously in the quantum vacuum all without any perceived cause!

However there are two main problems with this view:

1. The quantum vacuum is not nothing, so the claim that the universe came from nothing, because of the observations made at the quantum level, is misleading. The vacuum is actually something; it is a sea of fluctuating energy with a rich structure and obeys the laws of the universe. This is why many physicists are adopting a deterministic view of the observations made at the quantum level, for instance the David Bohm interpretation being one of them.

2. Philosophically speaking how can these physicists, like Stephen Hawking who adopt an indeterministic view, justify their conclusions? I don’t think they have a strong argument because everything we perceive in the universe comes into being via a cause, things change and events happen because of causes. This is the undeniable default position to take because the collective experience of mankind has never experienced or witnessed things coming into being out of nothing, and without the concept of causality we will not have the mental framework to understand our observations and experiences. In philosophical terms causality is a priori, which means knowledge we have independent of any experience.

Some philosophers and scientists deny this and claim that you can't think of examples of things we can know independent of experience. This is not true, take the following examples into consideration:

Circles have no corners.
Fathers are male.
4+4 = 8.
Time is irreversible.
Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

We know causality is true because we bring it to all our experience, rather than our experience bringing it to us. It is like wearing yellow-tinted glasses, everything looks yellow not because of anything out there in the world, but because of the glasses through which we are looking at everything. The contention that this is just an assumption is not true because without causality we would not be able to have the concept of an external reality. Take the following example into consideration; imagine you are looking at the White House in Washington DC. Your eyes may wonder to the door, across the pillars, then to the roof and finally over to the front lawn. Now contrast this to another experience, you are on the river Thames in London and you see a boat floating past. What dictates the order in which you had these experiences? When you looked at the White House you had a choice to see the door first and then the pillars and so on. However with the boat you had no choice as the front of the boat was the first to appear.

The point to take here is that you would not have been able to make the distinction that some experiences are ordered by yourself and others are ordered independently, unless we had the concept of causality. In absence of causality our experience would be very different from the way it is. It would be a single sequence of experiences only: one thing after another. 

You may be wondering how this relate to God’s existence. Well, if spontaneous creation from nothing was true and that causality did not make sense in the quantum vacuum, then from a scientific perspective God could be out of the picture. But since causality is true and spontaneous creation out of nothing is false, then we have a strong argument for the existence of God. Take the following premises into account,

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause
2. The universe began to exist
3. Therefore the universe has a cause

Since premises 1 and 2 are true, it logically follows that premise 3 is true. Everything that begins to exist has a cause, the universe began to exist, therefore the universe must also have a cause. However, to believe that this cause is God can be perceived as a leap of faith rather than a rational conclusion, because this cause could have been a mechanical cause or necessary pre-existing conditions. In light of this how can we justify that this cause is a transcendent immaterial being?

Using conceptual analysis, we can conclude that it must not be subject to time because it created time. This cause must also be uncaused due to the absurdity of an infinite regress, if the cause of the universe had a cause, and that cause had a cause ad infinitum, then there wouldn't be a universe to talk about in the first place! The cause of the universe must also be immaterial and beyond matter because it created the universe, and the universe is the sum of all matter. Significantly, this cause must have a will because since this cause is eternal, and it caused a finite effect, in other words the universe, then it must have chosen to do so, and choice indicates the existence of a will. Since this cause has a will it can interact and have relationships with personal agents, like human beings.

This analysis gives good reasons to believe in the Islamic concept of God, as the Qur’an – the book of the Muslims – eloquently summarises these points,

“Say: He is God, the One and Only! God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

In conclusion, it seems to me that the Professor has placed himself in a self-defeating position, because to claim something comes from nothing and that causality is not true at the quantum level would be tantamount to saying that his book The Grand Design was not written by him, rather it spontaneously appeared into existence without any cause, and came into being from nothing!

But we all know out of nothing, nothing comes. This is why the Professor seems to have contradicted himself by saying it was all possible because of gravity. Then I would like to kindly ask him, where did gravity come from? If he responds “from nothing”, well, I would rhetorically reply, “so did your book”.


Lastly, I must add that I am looking forward to reading the Professor's book to find out what exactly he means by spontaneous causality and that the universe came into being from nothing, because for me it just doesn't make any sense!

44 comments:

Zee said...

I guess the quantum level holds the key. Since all the causes ultimately ends at the Will of God, the seeming spontaneity and non-causal behavior at the quantum level may be because of the fact that at quantum level things don't happen by any laws of physics but purely by the Will of God. If that is the case Hawking has just proven the existence of God!
Since God transcends human mind and hence science, science can never perceive this Will as the cause and it will always understand that at quantum level things happen without any cause, spontaneously, on its own. No, but that happens purely by the Will of God, without any other cause. Allah knows best.

Hossam said...

As usual, a great article.

it seems to me that the anthropic principle, however absurd it is, is at least better than arguing against causality which is at the heart of every scientific theory and every human experience.

Having said that, I would have to read the whole book before saying that this is the view held by prof. Hawkins. It is my experience through Hawkins books that his ideas are often too complex to be represented by a single quote.

sakib said...

It seems Professor Hawking has missed a bigger problem: WHERE did these laws of physics just pop out from?

Anonymous said...

Jazak Allah Khair Brother! for the enlightening article and on the right time. i really was perturbed after reading mr. hawkings new found idea. what he said didn't affect the way i think but it made me depressed to know how much struggle lies ahead of us to fight the Fitnas of the modern age.

Anonymous said...

Great article, brother Hamza.

I wonder how he choose to contradict his statement conveniently

"If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size"

And this precision was "chance" ????

Joseph Smidt said...

You really hit the nail on the head with many of your points. Great article! Yes, he says "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing". Fine, but then where does gravity come from? It just gets to be self existing without an explanation? :)

Dhika Wikibi said...

Agree with Sakib, if Hawkins make a conclusion from physic-law theory then where does it come from? the think about quantum and gravity for example.. popped out from nothin into somethin has proven if there's a power beyond our brain ability to think...
nice Article Hamza, the atheist seems happy hearing 'the genius' conclude this, but with your article his theory easily broken

Dhika Wikibi said...

Agree with Sakib, if Hawkins make a conclusion from physic-law theory then where does it come from? the think about quantum and gravity for example.. popped out from nothin into somethin has proven if there's a power beyond our brain ability to think...
nice Article Hamza, the atheist seems happy hearing 'the genius' conclude this, but with your article his theory easily broken

The Sojourner said...

Oh Wow.

"Whatever begins to exist has a cause"

So, are you speculating that a god caused it to exist? Or are you arrogantly sure god did it as if you were there watching him do it?

Either way, if your answer to this NEXT QUESTION is NOTHING, or NO ONE because he's the ultimate beginning, you are seriously contradicting your LAW of"Whatever begins to exist has a cause"...

Question: Who or what created the creator of the Universe?

Hamza Andreas Tzortzis said...

The Sojourner:

You have not understood premise number 1. I am saying "whatever BEGINS to exist has a cause" NOT "whatever exists has a cause". God never began to exist, so it doesn't apply. And in the post I discussed the absurdity of an infinite regress of causes. I hope this helps.

The Sojourner said...

My point exactly. You just told me "God never began to exist".

Just as these religious theories contradicts itself, you just contradicted yourself again by saying god did not begin to exist, therefore he doesn't exist.

It is absurd to have an infinite regress of causes. Therefore, to assume that something started the law of gravity and the singularity from which the universe emerge, is absurd.

And even if that god is a material, observable matter, where did a self-righteous idea came from that it's name is "Allah", or the Jewish "YHWH?" or of Christianity's Jesus, the son of YHWH?

I guess a war that would wipe out the rest would prove it?

You know what I think? This scheme to justify that a god exist is nothing more than a desperate attempt to preserve all these religions.

Eden Eustice said...

It's amazing how for years and years we have no answer to what created the Big Bang; what was the cause to the thing that started the universe. In 2010 we come up with a theory that it was gravity. Well, what created gravity! Back to square one i guess.

Ruwayda Mustafah said...

I read it from Eureka Magazine, and glad someone commented on it.

Even Jim Al-khalilli believes this position requires faith, just as much as belief in God does (he twitted this). I was hoping someone would give an indepth analysis, but I guess we all just have to wait till the book comes out.

ahong said...

Jazakallah Khair Bro,

I like your work and I like how you explain things.

Just wanna add on the Big Bang Theory, Hawking failed to explain how 'singularity' is formed in his theory. The most I think he would say that it came from 'nothing' like his latest comment. How could 'nothing' turned into something right? Illogical and that is against any law of physics.

For example:
According to the law of physics, energy cannot be made/created and energy cannot be destroyed. It just change from one form to another.
If we try to investigate the origin of this energy, this means that we are trying to find out how energy is created (which is opposing the law of physics). This is impossible for any human because only the Creator knows this knowledge.

He further talk about abiogenesis/spontaneous creation theory about how life comes about which is also another joke. The theory also failed to explain how a non-living thing can become a living thing (with evidence). Plus what do spontaneous creation have anything to do with the creation of universe?

Anyway, keep up the good work bro!

-Ng Chee Hong (Malaysia)

Anonymous said...

I have read these comments with interest as well as the premise br Hamza gives (whatever begins to exist needs a cause etc).

But why do atheists still push down the 'who created God then' why is He exempt from a cause/beginning?? How did He pop in to being from 'nothing'.

What are the views on this?
Thanks

Anonymous said...

God by definition is uncreated! If He was created then He is not God!
The simple definition of God in Quran is written in Chapter 112:

“Say: He is God, the One and Only! God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.”

Shoaib Khan
www.maxafter.com

janus said...

Dear hamza,
the argument in reply to Sojourner has left me a bit confused. i am not able to make out the dfference between 'whatever begins to exist' and 'whatever exists'. can u please explain?

Hamza Andreas Tzortzis said...

Just to clarify the previous comment, I would like to add that what is meant by "whatever begins to exist has a cause" is that every effect is brought about by a cause. In the context of God, what is meant by "God never began to exist" is that He never started to exist or has never been caused by anything. God is uncaused by definition and this is understood by using rational thought.The main reason for this, as mentioned in the comment, is that if we say there is a cause for the cause of the universe, then what stops us from continuing this ad infinitum (forever)? If the causes went back forever then we wouldn't have the universe today! For example if I was a soldier with a gun and I wanted to shoot an enemy would I ever shoot if I had to ask the soldier behind me for permission, and they had to ask permission too, and this went on forever? No. I would never shoot. This is the same for the cause of the universe, it has to be uncaused. However, some may claim that why don't we say the uncauses cause stops at the universe itself? Well, we can't, as that would imply the universe created itself which is absurd - how can something exist and not exist at the same time?! Also, it would be irrational to claim that whatever begins to exist causes itself! As the universe began to exist, based on scientific and philosophical evidence, then it must has an external cause.

Fahim said...

Assalamulaikum,

Hamza, would it be incorrect to define Allah as the "embodiment of the Laws that govern the Universe"?

By embodiment, I mean not a physical body. Rather the "unification, or the Oneness of"

By Laws meaning, His attributes and fundamental nature as a whole (as God cannot be reduced to parts). Not the "created" laws of this universe.

Thus, put it together, and it is Allah who governs the universe (and all Reality).

Thus far, this line of reasoning has been far more successful with Atheists, in my experience. The main reason probably being psychological. Often, Atheists have this preconceived notion that "God" = invisible anthropomorphic Being far far away merely observing this Universe.

Now, I ask this question because I understand that Muslims are not to ascribe anything false to Allah. Some Muslims have objected to this use, but after clarifying what was meant, they understood (they thought I was referring to gravity being a part of God's "physical" body).

Thank you,

Salaam

Alvaroz said...

My sincerest prayer to your good future Mr.Hamza. Keep up the good work, and may Allah bless you..

irfan said...

Laws; like time, space, mathematical principles, are concepts that dont exist by itself. For example time does not exist without changes. Hence seeking refuge in a law is absurd.

Secondly if someone was to deny the need of a cause or even "hawkings law" for nonexistance to become existance; that would be a rational absurdity. For nonexistance would have remained nonexistance itself. Moreover by design probability nonexistance and existance have equal probabilities. For one probability to overcome the other would require a external cause.

Anonymous said...

Assalamu alyakum,
If this is how easy the prof finds to conclude that we came from nothin and that Allah doesn't exist, much easier for me is to conclude that he is too ignorant !! Although, he has many degrees and certificates but to me he is uneducated until he recognizes Allah and the simple message that an illiterate, NOT uneducated, Prophet brought !!
The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him couldn't read and write and the people of our time can write and read but yet they don't understand his message. I wonder, if he, peace be upon him, knew how to read and write what would have been the case, by that time ??

And, thanks, teacher hamza for clarifyin that Allah has no beginnin and no end. That's from Allah, indeed. For the last few days I was thinkin what it actually means : Allah has no beginnin and no end ! Al Hamdu Lillah, it's clear to me that because Allah is unique so He subhanahu wa ta 'ala doesn't have to have any beginnin or any end.

Does those who question who designed the designer mean there is somethin above the Creator ? If there was somethin above the perfect Allah, then I would have been the first one to leave worshippin Allah and would have submitted to that. Because, really, I felt great sense of security when I understood what it means Allah is above everythin and can hear and see everythin and nothin harms me except what Allah allows.

And, tell the prof everythin has one beginnin and one end i.e. we all came from Allah and will have to return to Him alone. Tell him if he enquires where did Allah came from : Does Allah have to return to Allah ? Does Allah have to have an end ?
"And invoke not any other god along with Allah, La ilaha illa Huwa. Everything will perish save His Face. His is the decision, and to Him you shall be returned."(Surah - 28 ; ayat :88)
So Al Hamdu Lillah, Allah is unlike anythin and Al Hamdu Lillah, I have come from Allah and will have to return to Him alone, not a man or a monkey or a cow !! Because, Allah alone is just and is well acquainted with what I do !!

May Allah guide them to the truth and help us to remain firm on the truth !!
Jazakallahu khair for the posts,
wassalamu alaykum waRahmatullahi waBarakaatuhu

Anonymous said...

Great Response to Hawkings Hamza ? You have debated atheists for while now,why not have one Dr William Lane Craig? He is just awesome when it comes to atheism but when refuting Islam he is just ......

Waris said...

Great Response Brother Hamza. I think the atheist have lost it completely.You have had debates with atheist for while now why not one with Dr William Craig? He is just amazing when he deals with atheism but when it comes to ISLAM, his arguments are just..........

Zeital said...

Quantum Physics seemingly follows very 'erratic' laws as compared to Classical Mechanics. Well many concepts in Quantum Physics including the nature of Gravity are not well explained to general population. Quantum Physics is still a relatively new branch of science which gradually found acceptance around the turn of 19th/20th century. Absolute concepts in Classical Physics (such as time, velocity, mass, and causality) were very ‘confused’ at the sub atomic level. The famous example it the ‘Aperture experiment’ with two slits to see which slit an electron traverses. Results were counter intuitive and mind boggling initially. Eventually scientist came to understand wave-particle duality.
Okay I hope one can grasp that Quantum Physics is ‘unpredictable’ to say the least.

This book is a great place to start, and I highly recommend. It is engaging, very well written and not technical so readership is general.

Quantum: A Guide for the Perplexed by Professor Jim Al-Khalili

Anonymous said...

As a scientist myself I find Hawking's argument astonishingly stupid? It is an enigma to me how a scientist of his stature can delve into the ideological while not maintaining the impartiality and objectivity that empericism demands-for this argument is not scientific but an poor ideological foray by an atheist.

Gravity by every definition I have ever come across is an attractive force between matter. It increases in magnitude with increasing matter. So how is it that gravity exists while matter doesn't if gravity is responsible for the birth of the universe from nothing? I think Newton would turn in his grave! As regards quantum physics, merely not understanding the system of quantum or sub-atomic physics is not a basis upon which to make grand statements about the existence of God or about the beginning of the universe. Would it not hae been better to say "we don't understand how the universe came into existence through science."

Fahim said...

Brother Irfan,

Thanks for your response. Yes, I am well aware that such "laws" are not absolutely independent, which is why I stressed "not the CREATED laws" aka such dependent laws. Allah is still the Ultimate Entity which governs everything, and it is His laws which govern all Reality.

Ibn Ismail said...

Stephen Hawking’s grand theory of what?

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100917/REVIEW/709169974/1008

Faysal said...

From wikipedia:

Hawking has stated that he is "not religious in the normal sense" and he believes that "the universe is governed by the laws of science. The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws."

...i.e. so he does admit that maybe God has created the laws of science, and thereby admits to the existence of God...

Anonymous said...

Brother Hamza

they removed your youtube Video "god delusion or truth" against that humanist editor Rick or something I think his name was

can you please repost that.
or can any one who has the video post it on youtube pls

jazakallah khair

Anonymous said...

The question that really flummoxes the Atheist community is how can something be "self-existing and uncaused" i.e. have necessary existence?
If we can show them convincing evidence of this, then they have to change their position.

One way philosophers have proven that uncaused entities exist, are with abstract entities, such as numbers, they say numbers have a necessary existence and don't need a cause for their existence.

A thing exists necessarily if however things had been, it would still have existed. These include such abstract entities as numbers, and in theology, God. The difficulty lies in understanding how a thing could have this kind of status, and what kind of things could be supposed to have it.

Abstract things (i.e. things existing only in the mind) are immaterial and are still fathomable to us like numbers, feelings and morals and they are a 'reality' for us. We can easily accept such things without any problems - so accepting the "abstract God", an immaterial and a "necessary being", should not be a problem at all! :-)

If we ask the question "How can an immaterial God self-exist?" We can answer it with another question..."How does our soul exist and work?" We forget our own existence and we cannot even explain that...

Does anyone know the "reality of the soul?" We don't know, but we accept the existence of it (i.e. ourselves) and see the reality of it (ourselves) by our "thinking" mechanism. The reality of knowing our soul is that we think and do things - we just think and do it - we can't explain how this thinking remotely happens or really works - yet - we don't see atheists question this by saying, "we do not see the soul, we do understand how our soul works, we don't know what kind of existence it has and how it came into existence... we do not have an answer from x,y,z therefore the soul does not exist... therefore we do not exist!" The same criteria are true for God, but the same logic is not applied by atheists :@

An analogy I would use is, a robot-toy programmed to do limited things, which uses AI, sensors, can talk, move and even know the toy maker in a limited way. This robot then goes onto try to fathom the reality of its maker, and question the reality of its maker, when it will struggle to and cannot even fathom the reality of its own existence!!!

I conclude by saying...
A finite mind cannot understand the infinite mind, that belongs to God! A contingent being will never fathom how a necessary being exists! A finite being cannot understand how a eternal being exists!

Wake up atheists and accept the more plausible proofs. If you want concrete, irrefutable and immutable proof then look into the Qur'an... ultimately the literary miracle of the Qur'an will blow away every other plausible proof even if they were combined together.


Abu Maryam

Abu Maryam said...

Religion v Science debate resumes!!

Dawkins, Atkins and now Hawkings - has a nice ring to it ;)

The Philosopher Professor Keith Ward answers the question:
"Is the belief in God rational?"

In a pointed rebuttal to Professor Peter Atkins' essay of October 8th , Keith Ward outlines why science alone cannot offer us and adequate an reasonable understanding of human existence, and why, without God many personal and philosophical questions will remain unanswered.

Ward says, "Peter (Atkins) says that science tries to make things simple, whereas religion tries to make them complex. Try comparing quantum theory with the religious claim that an intelligent God created the cosmos to generate finite intelligent beings that could understand and appreciate it. Which is simpler? Does it even make sense to compare them for simplicity? Is this not like comparing apples and prime numbers?..."

Professor Ward's full article
http://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/2772

Anonymous said...

Are only comments applauding the blog allowed?

Fahim said...

Assalamulaikum,

Brother Hamza, I seriously think you should check this link out as it may be of great benefit to you: http://discovermagazine.com/2010/apr/01-back-from-the-future

The implications of these experiments are extremely important. It implies that there is a sort of cause and effect at the quantum level, as experiments have shown that measurements done in the future affect the present (i.e. causality operates very differently than how we may have thought). It's completely in line with the Islamic concept of Qadr, and how when Allah wills for a thing He simply says "Be!" and it is (simultaneous, no sequential order due to time).

Stop said...

Are only comments allowed applauding the blog?

Stop said...

I never understand why people use the Cosmological or Kalam Argument to show the argument for the existence of a god.

Instead of bringing up "strong" or "good" reasons why a god should exist, why not just show this god itself?

Everyone understands certain gestures. Why not a particular god? As this argument shows - if we allow the premisses to be valid just for argument's sake - the conclusion is that a cause exists for the Universe to begin to exist.

Also, if we disregard the requirements for a "Conceptual Analysis" and simply say: ok, what the heck? we then still have some issues:

How did the cause for bringing the Universe into existence, do the same for time? Where does time come from, if we disregard the Big Bang model?

How can anything be "eternal" if time did not exist?

Why is the Universe the "sum of all matter" if we disregard and disallow the Big Bang model?

If we all know that "out of nothing, nothing comes" can anything have brought the Universe into existence out of nothing?

Where do the attributes for this god gain validity, if it is humans who decide this god is immaterial, beyond matter, have a will, eternal, can interact and have relationships with personal agents, not begotten, invisible, etc?

Why can the god of the Muslims interact with matter in our dimension if even the book of the Muslims claims: “Lord of the heavens and the earth, and (all) that is between them, the Beneficent; with Whom none can converse”? (78:37)

And finally, why does this show that the god "doing" all this is automatically the one described in the book of the Muslims? Where is the "good reason" to do so? Just because a book mentions some of these attributes?

Other gods have boasted they did the same thing in all regions of the world. Why not one of them, but specifically the Muslim appointed god?

Who said in the Ayat Al-Kursi that "he", Allah, feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving Earth and the heavens, yet allows them to die in 4 bn years - or when our galaxy collides with Andromeda, whichever comes first.

Fahim said...

Assalamulaikum, I'd just like to respond to the previous comment by "stop":

"I never understand why...for the existence of a god."

It’s simple: because the arguments for the existence of God, developed by Scholars of Kalaam make sense, have sound premises, and are thus, necessarily true.

"Instead of bringing up "strong" or "good"...show this god itself?"

You need to clarify what you mean by “show this god itself”, because if you’re talking about providing a visual representation or a physical embodiment of Allah, then you need to understand that this is impossible. Allah is not a material body, nor does He exist inside of this universe. He does not have any visual representation. Instead of using the words “strong” or “good”, one should use “valid”, because valid reasons for the existence of God have no reason not be accepted.

“…we then still have some issues:”

The so-called issues you’ve brought forth are merely questions of the finer mechanics or details of how Allah willed things to occur. They in no way undermine the arguments which demonstrate that Allah did in fact bring all of temporal reality (i.e. that which is intrinsically possible) into existence. Allah is intrinsically necessary.

"How...disregard the Big Bang model?"

How? This is a question that may be answerable given some further developments in physics. However, for now asking “how” Allah did something beyond the processes of this universe itself (i.e. nothing we’ve discovered in OUR universe resembles creating out of nothing), is not something we can answer in depth. Also, it is not something we need to answer in order to prove or defend the existence of God.

Besides, before asking this question one needs to correct their concept of God. An anthropomorphic “man up in the sky” sort of god would run into problems here, however, the Islamic concept does not. Who’s to say that causality has to be strictly linear (i.e. X causes Y which causes Z)? Who is to say it has to occur in some sequential order with time, especially considering that time was also brought into existence.

cont'd

Fahim said...

"here do the attributes for this god gain validity..."

Muslims don’t simply arbitrarily decide these attributes about God. They derive them through logic connected to sound premises, and only a few of these attributes can be derived without revelation. These include: being immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient, needless, entirely unique etc. However, we rely on the Qur’an to fill in all of the gaps in our knowledge.

"Why can the god of the Muslims interact with matter in our dimension if even the book of the Muslims claims..."

Firstly, you should always refer to a Tafsir or Qur’anic exegesis before interpreting a verse from the Qur’an, conclusively. Why? Because one who has not specialized in the interpretation of the Qur’an lacks the necessary tools to do this. That being said, I’m not saying you shouldn’t reflect upon it, but you should always make sure you read a reliable scholarly commentary. Since you have not done this, you have the notion that Allah does not “interact” with this universe. Had you read other verses in the Qur’an, such as:

“You do not will anything unless Allah has willed it.” (Surah Al-Insan: 30) and,

“And He created everything and predestined it.” (Al-Furqaan, 2)

All of this means that Allah governs the entire universe, and everything is bound to His will. Is this not an “interaction” or “connection”? As for the verse you’ve brought forth, you’ve provided the pickthall translation.

I am curious to know whether you took the time to read any of the others and the few verses which precede it. I don’t think you have, otherwise the context of the verse would be clear. For instance, this is the Yusuf Ali translation:

“(From) the Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between, - (Allah) Most Gracious: none shall have power to argue with Him.” (78:37)

Also, read this:

(37. The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and whatsoever is in between them, the Most Gracious, with Whom th- ey cannot dare to speak.) (38. The Day that Ar-Ruh and the angels will stand forth in rows, they will not speak except him whom Ar-Rahman allows, and he will speak what is right.) (39. That is the True Day. So, whosoever wills, let him seek a place with His Lord!) (40. Verily, We have warned you of a near torment -- the Day when man will see that which his hands have sent forth, and the disbeliever will say: "Woe to me! Would that I were dust!'')

As per the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1404&Itemid=134#1):

"...Then He says, (With Whom they cannot dare to speak.) meaning, no one is able to begin addressing Him except by His permission...This is similar to what has been confirmed in the Sahih, that the Prophet said, ('And none will speak on that Day except the Messengers.)' "

I think it it's quite clear what this is referring to: Judgment Day.

cont'd

Fahim said...

Finally:

"And finally...Just because a book mentions some of these attributes?"

There can only be One God, and this can be established through reason and conceptual analysis. Now, irrespective of the names used to address this God, what matters is the concept of God. This establishes which concept makes sense, is supported by the evidence, and thus, is valid. The concept of God in the Qur’an is the one that makes sense, and is supported by evidence.

It avoids logical inconsistencies such as the idea that God can beget a son (who shares His essence by being the 2nd person of the Trinity), and attests to the fact that God is entirely unique and distinct from everything else. Further, it also establishes necessary attributes such as Knowledge, Power and Will. Also, the Qur’an isn’t just a “book”, it can be verified to be the Word of God.

"Other gods have boasted they did the same thing in all regions of the world. Why not one of them, but specifically the Muslim appointed god?"

Precisely, Allah does not boast. Boasting refers to bragging which involves feelings of pride. This is only possible for a being which needs to feel as if he/she has value (usually those who are insecure), and desires attention from other beings. A Being Who is entirely perfect and complete, needless, and free of desires and drives, does not have humanistic emotions or “feel”.

Allah does not need us, nor does He need our acknowledgment. Everything is by His will, including what we are. See my answer above, all that matters is the concept of God. Bring forth these other gods, and the concepts upon which they are built, and it will be demonstrated that they suffer from conceptual problems, and a lack of evidence.

"Who said in the Ayat Al-Kursi... Andromeda, whichever comes first."

Why do you assert that there is a problem between feeling no fatigue, and willing for this universe to come to an end? I see absolutely no problem especially considering that it is under His absolute control; however, you do because your premise is: a Being who feels no fatigue would create this universe and will for it to exist forever. In this case, substantiate your claim, and show me how you have the knowledge to dictate what God should and would do.

Are you His Judge?
“He is not asked about what He does to creation, but the creation is asked.” (Al-Anbiya, 23).

Regards,

Fahim

Anonymous said...

Salam Alaikum

I pray you are all well inshAllah.

Just a bit of confusion in my mind I'd like to get my head round; is it not possible that gravity or the quantum field of energy is what is eternal, and matter spontaneously was able to form out of that? A common questions seems to be, what created gravity? But can't the same answer be given as to What created God ie. this has to be eternal and uncreated due to the problem of infinite regress?

Appreciate your replies. Sorry for any ignorance on my part.

Peace

Anonymous said...

I am fascinated by the topics being discussed here. I am a beginner, so could you guys tell me some authentic books on how universe came into being and all the physics around it and philosophy around it. I am a muslim, so I want to read known facts agreed by islamic worldview.

Anonymous said...

salam brother Hamza..

before Big bang there was a 'singularity'...everything including our concepts of infinity, time, space, independence etc were created during this big bang...so the question of what before that or chain of Causality stops there..how would you explain this?

jzk..

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

"WOW" this is all I have for you. you have nailed him nicely. Allah Subhanahu Wata'a'laa has blessed you with knowledge and may the Mighty Allah Azza Wajalla gives you Jannah in the Hereafter. Amen!
Jazakallah Khair.