Debate: Islam or Atheism? With Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists from Andreas Tzortzis on Vimeo.
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12 comments:
Salam alaikum Hamza,
While watching this debate I was reminded of a quote by Descartes when Buckner was talking about the problem of evil:
"When asking whether God's works are perfect, I ought to look at all of them together, not at one isolation. For something that seems imperfect when viewed alone might seem completely perfect when regarded as having a place in the world."
Seems relevant, and I don't know you might have used it, but I've paused the video and will only learn after resuming it.
(Asking for your prayers.)
Jazakamullah khair for the upload. Was soo looking forward to another debate by an amazing speaker Alhamdulillah.
Salamu 'Alaikum.
As-salaamu alaykum Abs,
That's a very interesting quote. JazakAllahkhair.
My main response was that Dr. Buckner's Problem of Evil argument assumed moral properties, and to do that necessitates the existence of God in the first place!
When you watch the rest of it you will see insha'Allah.
Was-salaamu alaykum, Hamza.
Assalamu alaikum brother Hamza,
Nice debate, but unfortunately I am starting to feel that no amount of arguments are enough to convince an atheist unless he admits or at least searches for his desire or inner feeling for needing GOD.
And I honestly think at least in my opinion that it is a very strong argument. The same way thirst implies the existence of water.
As Salamo Alaikum Our job is to convey the truth ... and if some atheist have shut their faculties ... there are many others who are looking for truth and are coming to Islam
Asalamo Alikum,
I believe in debates one speaker presents its argument and another speaker breaks it, but in this case Brother Hamza presented the Islamic world view, instead of breaking down the arguments presented in favor of Islamic world view, Dr. Ed Buckner start building his own distinct case of “why I am an atheist”, which I think is the reason why you can’t have a conclusive debate. Moreover, by asking a question who then created God, the atheists expose badly their hypocritical intellectual faculty, which mean that they have not even tried to understand the argument.
WS
Tariq
Can someone please tell why the debate video has been removed? Hamza please upload it back.
They deleted it. However it can be found here www.thebigdebates.com and it will be uploaded elsewhere soon inshAllah.
Assalamulaikum,
Alhamdulillah, an interesting debate brother Hamza. I must say, I am personally disappointed as this debate appeared to be very one sided (you had the definite advantage). Dr. Ed Buckner did not address your arguments very well, I was hoping for at least one interesting relevant response. He also does not seem to understand the problem of having no objective morality.
His premises are simply such - premises (i.e. we should treat each other well because it is in our best interest). Well how do you even define what our "best interest" is without an objective truth?
As for the argument from Evil, the quotation from Descartes is very relevant. Allah is Complete, as such His will works towards completion. If you consider the "evil" components of the world, in isolation from the greater picture, sure, you may conclude that something is wrong. However, if you view the matter from the perspective that there is a greater good/purpose accomplished, it makes sense. Surely, a Reality where evil exists, entails goods such as bravery, heroism and sacrifice, hard work, perseverance, patience etc. And also, you have the set of goods in Paradise. Now, if you consider the goods that are possible in THIS world BECAUSE OF evil, and the set of virtues in Paradise, together, you have a more complete set, than if Allah was to merely create us into an artificially "good" world (i.e. one in which we did not have to struggle to arrive at good, but were simply good - like happy robots). This is essentially a two world theodicy.
Moreover, he doesn't appear to understand the Kalam cosmological argument - the universe could NOT have always existed (infinite regress of past events) therefore it must have had a cause.
Hamza, I would be very interested in how you would explain how this cause is personal though. I did not understand your reasoning (i.e. how else could an eternal cause create a finite effect)? In one of your older slide shows, you had some analogies, but I have long forgotten.
Thank you!
Salaam
Was wondering if br hamza ever gets headaches from the ridiculous "counter arguments" atheists concoct..
It needn't be that complicated.
Great work from br hamza as always mashallah
WOW, WOW, WOWWW! That guy debating Hamza should NOT be debating, specially about Islam which he admitted of being ignorant about. Couldn't you find someone that could represent atheism better?
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